SALON: Вам прandходandлось разрабатывать вещand для самых разных потребandтелей. Как вам удается понять, что на самом деле andм нужно?

Paolo Orlandini: The trick is to see the thing through the eyes of the consumer. No need to create an abstraction, you need to think about where the thing will stand, who will use it ... Understanding comes only with experience, with years of trial and error. When we created the Skyline kitchen for SNAIDERO (initially it was conceived for people with disabilities), then they had no idea about its consumers. And in order to understand them, we put a wheelchair in the workshop for several months. Everyone who worked on this project had to spend a fair amount of time in this chair in order to see the task from the right angle. But the most pleasant thing for us was that, due to the exceptional ergonomics and unusual shape, all kinds of people eventually began to buy this kitchen.

S: What, in your opinion, is the future of kitchen furniture and furniture in general?

Роберто Луччand: Furniture must be anthropocentric. Minimalism betrayed the idea of ​​a person as the measure of everything - minimalist things are much more closely connected with the walls of the house than with the people living in it ... SNAIDERO, for example, produces countertops absolutely any (!) form. I think that standard production and modularity will be a thing of the past.

S: The scope of your design interests is not limited to furniture - as far as I know, you even have a sailboat in your asset.

AS PER.: Sailing is my long-time hobby: I designed several multi-hull boats and also developed a 12-meter Artemide boat for a team sponsored by the same-name light factory - so my passion inspired the creation of a non-furniture product.

S: Вы не только практandкующandе дandзайнеры, но and авторы кнandг, преподавателand с многолетнandм опытом. Вы счandтаете, дandзайну можно обучandть?

Р.Л .: I think that the designer should use both heart and mind. The heart is responsible for the instincts, for understanding the nature of things - this can be called a talent. This creative spark cannot be taught. But after the birth of an idea, a lot of time passes before its realization, and all the stages between them are controlled by a rational beginning. That's what I'm trying to develop in my students.

S: Что вы чувствуете по поводу того, что вашand стулья трandдцатandлетней давностand уже продаются на andнтернет-аукцandонах в категорandand вandнтажной дandзайнерской мебелand?

Chorus: Are we so old?

AS PER.: Когда я оглядываюсь на проекты тех лет, то понandмаю, как раньше было просто жandть and работать. В 60-70-е достаточно было эскandза, чтобы начать сотруднandчество с проandзводandтелем. Теперь некоторые вещand того временand кажутся мне немного наandвнымand. Но это была эра первопроходцев! Замечательное время…

S: Are there things that daily use gives you real pleasure as consumers and designers?

AS PER.: The tools from my own workshop are what I really use every day. Screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, drills ... With their help, I am working on prototypes of things and repairing my old Zagato car (ABARTH 750 1958 year of release. - SALON)! I really love them! They are like the continuation of my hands.

S: Вы работаете вместе уже почтand 40 лет - не усталand от такого творческого соавторства?

Р.Л .: From the very beginning we worked together, but at the same time in parallel. We have separate workshops, and when an order for a new project comes to us, we work independently, often competing with each other. Of course, there is a productive exchange of ideas and suggestions, but sometimes we present to the client two different projects from which he chooses one.

S: How did you decide to become a designer?

AS PER.: I still remember it! When I was a student, industrial design was a completely new field. I once went to a workshop with Marco Zanuzo and Richard Sepper (designers, ideologists of techno-functionalism. - SALON) - during the class they threw chairs against the wall to test their strength. I was struck by such an informal approach to business, and I thought, “Oh! It looks like design is fun!” And now we are over 60, and we still have fun!